Sources des données
Community Forge
Étude Intégration
- Compatibilité avec la charte : voir l'échange de mail ci-dessous. On cloture cette fiche. Voir la fiche SEL'idaire.
- Qualité des données
- Modération
- Redondance
- Récupération des données
- Mapping catégories
Intégration Technique
- Mapping des catégories
- Catégories filtrées
- Détails Bus Sémantique
Difficultés Rencontrées
Changements importants depuis l'intégration
echange de mail
Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 31 mars 2022 à 14:59À : matslats@fastmail.com
Hello Community Forge and Matthew Slater
we process your request for integration into Transiscope with a delay
The first thing to do is to read this document and check that your data is suitable for integration :
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Apev9gObOlDE9LCeXQaXqrVxKG3A0EbFirkpkNtHIA/edit#heading=h.oqtogdtf0kj0
I have looked at the data you have aggregated and it seems too partial (not enough fields) to be integrated in Transiscope. Do you have more complete data somewhere?
Best Regards,
Simon L
Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 31 mars 2022 à 15:48
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
HI Simon
I cant' remember which data I sent you.
Have you looked at the http://murmurations.network project? It has a nice architecture that the dataset needs no maintenance because it is all aggregated from live sites.
So you could read directly and regularly from their index AND and you could publish a json file with all your data which would be read by their index.
Interesting?
Matthew
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Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 31 mars 2022 à 19:47
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
hI Matthew,
I spoke about data in this map : http://creditcommons.net/map
We know http://murmurations.network and it is a good techno. One of the problems is that it imposes technology and effort on the sources. Transiscope's philosophy is to work with the data available to the sources regardless of their technology. We are looking more at the interoperability of the semantic web and in particular Semapps.
Simon L
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Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 1 avril 2022 à 12:20
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
ok good.
The credit commons map is also on murmurations. So you could index it from there.
https://aggregator.murmurations.network/ select "complementary currency schema".
I believe that history shows that maintaining maps is too much work and nobody wants to fund maintenance, only new projects.
I also think that map makers spend a lot of time finding and categorising all the projects within their purview, and usually only find a small subsection.
That's why I favour the establishment of a protocol and development of simple tools so that each project that cares about visibility can put themselves in an index.
The two approaches are not incompatible, since map makers can also publish their lists to a murmurations aggregatator.
The aggregator should also be able, eventually, to identify duplicates.
Cheers
Matthew
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Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 1 avril 2022 à 16:42
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
Hi Matthew,
Can you send me the API that is used by murmuration to get your data.
The Sel'idaire collective has also contacted us to integrate their data. Do you know them?
https://selidaire.org/
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1CX9o-vy6p7uuxCZlUPCSQ4brs4HV36VK&ll=45.50879211365249%2C4.287621891646168&z=6
The problem with your data is that it is minimalist with only a title and a geo. Do you have more complete data?
Best Rergards,
Simon L
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Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 1 avril 2022 à 16:56
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
On Fri, 1 Apr 2022, at 16:42, Simon Louvet wrote:
Hi Matthew,
Can you send me the API that is used by murmuration to get your data.
The Sel'idaire collective has also contacted us to integrate their data. Do you know them?
https://selidaire.org/
Yes I built and maintain the selidaire web site, but I'm not involved in the organisation otherwise.
They are listed on murmurations as a single site, but they do have info for about 500 SEL which I could publish to murmurations, in addition to each SEL hosted by cforge publishing its own data.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1CX9o-vy6p7uuxCZlUPCSQ4brs4HV36VK&ll=45.50879211365249%2C4.287621891646168&z=6
This map was a separate hand-made effort.
I dont' know if it is maintained.
I hope not because the selidaire site can generate such a map using live data.
I think I incorporated it into the credit commons map i.e. before murmurations.
The problem with your data is that it is minimalist with only a title and a geo. Do you have more complete data?
Not sure which map you mean.
Normally I would have title, url, geo, maybe contact details, then if possible various data (defined as a murmurations sub-schema about the trading activity of the SEL.)
The credit commons map http://creditcommons.net/map has several different sources indicated below, and some of that data was scraped from elsewhere and may not be very satisfying.
If you want to publish your whole index to murmurations, start here
https://app.swaggerhub.com/apis-docs/MurmurationsNetwork/IndexAPI/1.0
But be aware that there are, as I said, sub-profiles, to support more detailed metadata for different types of projects. At the moment I believe on a few sub-profiles exist, but you would be welcome to co-develop them.
If you are going to make an investment in time in murmurations, they would like to hear from you on Telegram @geoffturk and @amckenty
Matthew
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Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 1 avril 2022 à 18:33
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
Hello Matthew,
As I said before, we don't invest time and energy in murmuring. We could make the transiscope data available in the murmuration protocol but a semantic API already exists to access it.
https://transiscope.gogocarto.fr/api
The exchange with you is in the context of integrating the Community Forge data into Transicope.
Is the best way to get your data is this url?
https://aggregator.murmurations.network/api/nodes?schema=complementary_currencies-v1
Have all the sources you have aggregated given their permission to be published on a platform like transiscope?
Do you know who to contact at Sel'idaire to get more information about their data?
Best Regards,
Simon L
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Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 1 avril 2022 à 21:07
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
On Fri, 1 Apr 2022, at 18:33, Simon Louvet wrote:
Hello Matthew,
As I said before, we don't invest time and energy in murmuring. We could make the transiscope data available in the murmuration protocol but a semantic API already exists to access it.
making the data available in the murmurations format is 99% of the work.
Basically you just make a json file and then ping the aggregator with its address.
I bet Geoff / Adam would help you as much as they could.
https://transiscope.gogocarto.fr/api
I think there are enough fields in common to be useful.
The exchange with you is in the context of integrating the Community Forge data into Transicope.
Is the best way to get your data is this url?
https://aggregator.murmurations.network/api/nodes?schema=complementary_currencies-v1
Yes that's the best way to read the data all in one place.
Have all the sources you have aggregated given their permission to be published on a platform like transiscope?
no.
But they published their data publically. and the map shows the sources.
Do you know who to contact at Sel'idaire to get more information about their data?
I don't know who you should talk about getting permission, and politics.
Also I don't know who is responsible for that google map.
But I'm responsible for everything concerning selidiare.org, including any murmurations data.
I have left a note asking Selidaire if they regard their map data as public.
You might also approach https://route-des-sel.org/sels/map whose data is similar. I'm also the webmaster.
Matthew
Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 3 avril 2022 à 17:24
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
Selidaire were unhappy that transiscope was publishing out-of-date data and also concerned about the permissions of that data.
With their drupal 8 site they can now keep data up-to-date all the time.
I have asked them to think again about permissions, since I think all that data is already public, and to think about publishing their data in a format that means transiscope and murmurations could easily aggregate it.
Please ignore my suggestion to contact route-des-sel - there's a large overlap of people who think in a similar way.
Can you get back to me in a month if I don't update you?
Matthew
Find out more about my work in local money systems
Twitter: @matslats
Personal web site including my blog, Adventures in mutual credit
Co-author, Money & Society MOOC
Co-originator of Credit Commons and Open Credit Network
Co-founder & CTO Community Forge
Telegram, Whatsapp, Signal: +33767424120
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Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 4 avril 2022 à 13:03
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
Hello Matthew,
Transiscope has never published out-of-date Selidaire's data. We have been trying to contact them for several months to start the integration process.
It would be a pleasure to integrate continuously updated data from drupal. However, we need to have a policy/ethics verification process with Selidaire before the technical integration. This process is described in the document I have provided you with from the beginning: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Apev9gObOlDE9LCeXQaXqrVxKG3A0EbFirkpkNtHIA/edit#heading=h.oqtogdtf0kj0
Can you put us in touch with the right people to follow this process?
Simon L
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Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 4 avril 2022 à 13:55
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
The google map you shared with me was out of date and I guess they knew it.
I don't know what data you published but the feeling I got was that organisation was not well-disposed towards transiscope in general.
Lets leave it a month, to give them time to consider that they can now publish continually updated data, and to consider the GDPR question, which they might have to mediate with each individual SEL.
Are you considering publishing all your data with murmurations? Have you considered what new profile types would be needed?
Matthew
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Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 4 avril 2022 à 14:53
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
Annick Drouault, member of Selidaire, required integration of theirs data on Tuesday 8th of October 2019. That why we that's why we try to contact them, to answer their request.
We give them as much time as they need. I would like to have direct contact with them without going through Community Forge. Can you put me in touch?
We do not plan to publish the data of the sources on murmuration because they have not authorised us to do so. We are having difficulty getting them to choose a licence for each one. If murmuration allows us to specify the licence for each data and we have completed this task, we could publish.
Simon L
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Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 4 avril 2022 à 18:42
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
I am in touch with Annick so left her a message to contact you.
On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, at 14:53, Simon Louvet wrote:
Annick Drouault, member of Selidaire, required integration of theirs data on Tuesday 8th of October 2019. That why we that's why we try to contact them, to answer their request.
We give them as much time as they need. I would like to have direct contact with them without going through Community Forge. Can you put me in touch?
We do not plan to publish the data of the sources on murmuration because they have not authorised us to do so. We are having difficulty getting them to choose a licence for each one. If murmuration allows us to specify the licence for each data and we have completed this task, we could publish.
I don't know about these rules. Are you seeking permission from each and every directory listee to be listed in your directory alone? Why is it different for google to list them?
Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 4 avril 2022 à 19:12
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
Thank you for contacting Selidaire
We ask each source to define the license to publish their data.
I didn't understand why you are talking about google map. Tansiscope is very different: we are not the data manager but only a publication showcase. The sources remain totally in control of their data.
Simon L
Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 4 avril 2022 à 19:21
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
You provided a google map at the top of this thread
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Apev9gObOlDE9LCeXQaXqrVxKG3A0EbFirkpkNtHIA/edit#heading=h.oqtogdtf0kj0
I assumed it was the one hand-made by SELIidaire a while ago. Otherwise I don't know what it is or where you would have got the data from.
How many choices of licence do you offer?
Can't my organisation just say, Yes anything on the web site is in the public domain.
I don't understand why there is law around publishing indexes of organisations. Is the GDPR? Any why doesn't google ask us whether we want to be indexed? Isn't all the information you need about licensing in the robots.txt file?
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Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 4 avril 2022 à 22:09
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
Map provided at the top of this thread was made by Selidaire and not Transiscope. This is the map that was provided with the integration request.
We have not extracted or processed any data from SELIidaire at this time.
Each source chooses its licence. We do not have a "standard" list. We recommend ODBL or CC BY SA.
More information in French : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cgvmt0BfEXjjFCH_qx9bBCnVgMtvLsGefCkrtb4KtSo/edit#
Licence CCO is fully adapted to the public domain. No Problem.
There is no law on publishing indexes of organisations. Some sources do not publish their indexes or only under certain conditions. That is why we ask them to specify their licence.
Google does not ask if we want to be indexed because the information is published on public pages. The law of each country must be applied. In France, for example, this is a matter of copyright: Google has the right to quote (reference) but not to copy or transform, and has the obligation to mention the author and other obligations.
The licence information can be in robots.txt. In the case of an API or data file this does not apply.
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Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com> 5 avril 2022 à 09:58
À : Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com>
Thanks
There's clearly some history I don't know if SELidaire thought you had published out of date info without permission.
I don't know what info you would publish (reference) that wasn't already in the public domain.
I look forward to SELidaire telling me what they think about this privacy and why, and hence, whether it want to publish on murmurations.
Matthew
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Simon Louvet <simon.louvet.zen@gmail.com> 5 avril 2022 à 14:27
À : Matthew Slater <matslats@fastmail.com>
I don't know if SELidaire has privacy. This is one of the questions when we respond to a source that asks to be integrated.
I don't know what info we would publish. This is one of the questions when we respond to a source that asks to be integrated.